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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Apr 2011 : 08:22:14
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I can understand why this is being suggested as it means minimal change to the application.
This is because this can all be done at the moment if you do it manually. i.e. you can copy the symbols for a particular component into that components library and you can name the librarys accordingly .... in fact that is the way I am getting round these problems now.
The proposed method simply provides a more automated way. I can accept that this is a small step forward, however I still cannot understand why once a component has been constucted it cannot become a single entity containing all its design info and does not need to rely on particular libraries being present whenever it is re-used.
Very much like the completed files ..... when you open your pcb design files, they do not go searching libraries for all the components in the design, why ...because they are held totally within the design file.
I just feel its daft to construct a fixed entity but then not store it as such.
Iain
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2011 : 11:03:10
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Not sure if you have missed a key point here, that for such a 'locked' component library it would not use the library search folder list / order and hence would not 'accidentally' find a same-named symbol elsewhere in your library folders.
So if your Transistor.cml library in your IBM folder was 'locked' (or whatever we call it), adding a component to a design from that library won't find an SOT23 footprint from a library in your 'common' folder or your 'Rolls Royce' folder or anywhere else. It will only find that symbol from your IBM folder, possibly even only from your Transistor.psl if we decide to go as far as to lock it down to same-named library files.
So, this *is* a change from how it currently works, it isn't just automating what you can already do, it is a genuine attempt to propose an alteration to the software that should accommodate several different ways of working including yours.
David
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2011 : 13:43:16
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Hi David,
I do understand .... what I was meaning was at the moment you need to manually move things into the correct folders BUT also you need to disable folders that are not needed and enable the ones you need. Thats really the problem ... is remembering to do all this at the moment.
Iain |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2011 : 14:00:09
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That was the main driver behind our current proposal, as it means you don't have to keep turning folders on and off. You can have the folders set up to access all the various sets of libraries you've got, without the chance of 'cross pollination' of symbols between one set and another.
David.
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2011 : 16:39:34
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Ok .... I'm kinda wth you on this in that if it definately means never picking up the wrong info then fine. However I still think the safer method is to store all in the component. Now I can understand that may change the whole format of the library system and could case other users problems with existing data etc, so how about being able to produce a new type of library which uses complete components that you can use (or not) ... surely this would mean that the existing system could stay for those who are happy with it, whereas otheres (like me) would prefer the "complete component" version. As all the data is the same when you pull in a component .. it just comes from one file or from 3 files.
Iain
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Kruse
Denmark
28 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 11:12:42
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I agree with you in Iain.
A component should contain info of which lib the schematic and each package originates from.
As it is now it just graps the first the best part with that particular name, what ever lib, it might be in and despite of which it was made form.
Even worse is that when you later on discover you have several components in your design that are actually another version that expected, you get trapped.
As A. Einstein said: "Keep it simple - but not simpler".
This is too simple. |
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JoeB
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 09:52:53
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Hi- Was this implemented?
I am currently creating my own library (EPC V16).
I have copied a component from one lib, to my lib. It doesn't appear to copy the footprint and symbol, so I have copied them too (well i think i have, as a copied more than one component at a time, i may have missed one).
Is there a way to quickly see what lib the footprint and symbol are from when viewing components in the lib manager?
I cant see this, and have to "edit" each component, then look at the properties (right click on the footprint on the right hand window of the component), to check the source lib for the footprint and symbol.
This is quite time consuming. I dont want the SOT23 symbol to be used from the SM lib that shipped with EPC, i only want symbols and footprints that are in my lib to be used.
Once i have done this, i will turn off all other libs except my own, so i can control them accordingly.
How do you know if a component has the footprint and symbol correctly ascioated with it, when is an error shown? When you add that component to a sch or a pcb, or when in the lib editor?! confused- please help.
Also, after exiting the lib editor, why isnt the lib dialog shown again? It disappears and i have to open it again each time (probably a setting somewhere i have missed? |
Edited by - JoeB on 17 Aug 2012 10:03:00 |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 10:43:14
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Joe,
Unfortunatley NO it was not implemented, so you are experiancing the situation I was complaining about. Basically the component, schematic symbol, and pcb symbols are contained in seperate libs. When you select a conponent the system scans in order from top to bottom through the libs looking for the symbol name. You will notice you can change the order of the libs by moving them up and down. But if there is a symbol that has the same name in more than one enabled lib, it will pick the first one it finds, and if it is incorrect and perhaps has a different pinning then BANG ! You have a bad component that unless you spot it will stop your pcb working. Numberone tried to address this with "Bound Libraries" but this is not common knowledge, please contact them directly to find out how to implement it. I did try it but it too ha flaws. Basically it restricts the search of a component parts to fixed libraries and excludes all others.
I have constantly said that the current library structure is the achillees heel of EasyPC and that once a component is generated it should be a complete entity, but Numberone have made it clear they will never change this.
Iain |
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JoeB
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 10:57:53
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OK, well i'll have to work around that.
Is there a way to know quickly what lib a symbol and footprint are being taken from? I'm guessing not as it depends on the lib order.
When does EPC show an error is symbol or footprint are not found? I dont want to have to add all my components to a sch/pcb just to check them !! |
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davep
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2012 : 14:40:24
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I do something similar.
I order to control the resulting schematic and layout I only use symbols from my own library.
These are usually created from scratch but in some cases I copy from Easy-PC provided libraries and edit them to fit my rules.
Fortunately I do not tend to get involved with high density parts such as 128 pin processors etc.
All my symbols are named as drawing numbers and carry issues as one of the values.
My prefered method is:
(1) check the component library to see what schematic and layout symbols are used.
(2) copy each of these into the new library.
(3) rename them.
(4) go into component item and change names there.
(5) check and fix any problems.
(6) customise as necessary.
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jlawton
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 12:36:20
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quote:
Originally posted by davep
I do something similar.
I order to control the resulting schematic and layout I only use symbols from my own library.
These are usually created from scratch but in some cases I copy from Easy-PC provided libraries and edit them to fit my rules.
Fortunately I do not tend to get involved with high density parts such as 128 pin processors etc.
All my symbols are named as drawing numbers and carry issues as one of the values.
I do the same and only turn on my libraries to avoid conflicts. If we are staying with the same system for now it would be very nice if the symbol name could contain more characters as meaningful descriptions are difficult with the current limit.
John
John Lawton Electronics |
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Topic |
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Library Structure Suggestion