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rwconcepts
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 22:35:00
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I reported a problem by e-mailing the Support address over 4 weeks but haven't had an answer. Is there anyone actually there?
My problem is with a signal via passing through all 8 layers of my board. When viewed in EPC the via has clearance around 2 Cu areas on 2 inner layers. However in the Gerbers (and unfortunately the finished PCBs) there is no inner layer clearance and the via is shorting the Cu areas together. The problem seems to have arisen during the Gerber file generation. Does anyone (including EPC Support) have any ideas?
Thanks, Rog.
Roger |
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pedro444
United Kingdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2009 : 12:46:40
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Hi Roger
Sorry to hear about that problem, sounds like it could be expensive.
I have experenced the inverse of the problem. I had a through board component one end of which should go to a groundplane. Now viewing the groundplane from EPC clearly shows the thermal isolation spokes connecting the plated hole to ground, but on getting the board back from manufacturing the pad was isolated.
Subsequently inspecting the gerber files the thermal spokes just dont exist.
This was corrected by updating (from what I can remember the unchanged) component. The gerber then matched the EPC view.
If support would like to see what I mean, email me & I can send the
offending board info (if I still have it).
Unlike you I could fix the board with three wire links.
What I do now is:-
Never ignore PCB DRC errors without evaluation.
Never ignore warnings during a plot job.
Always look at the gerbers prior to manufacture.
Peter
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pedro444
United Kingdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2009 : 17:28:17
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The above got me a bit worried, I've got a few boards about to go to manufacture so I investigated the problem a bit more.
A number of hours later & I will contact support.
In the meantime check the date of "gerber.dll" in your EPC program directory. If its date is 21/07/2008 it may be causing your problem, the version dated 01/08/2008 certainly fixed mine.
There is another ddl which seems may have the wrong date "libbasics.dll" dated 23/07/2008 and should be 01/08/2008.
I think its how you upgrade, jumping from say 12.0.0 to 12.0.5 fails to update all the files properly, update sequentially 12.0.0 then 12.0.1 etc works ok.
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2009 : 21:19:27
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Perhaps Peter at Number One can respond to this. I have always upgraded through the versions as they came out. But an reading your post and checking my file I find that I have the old dates sor both the files you mention, so it would appear something is going wrong here.
Iain |
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rwconcepts
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2009 : 22:44:43
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Thanks very much for replying (it's more than NumberOne can manage!).
The inconsistency between the EPC view and the Gerber file that you describe is interesting. Fiddling about I discovered that deleting the track and via then putting them back got rid of the problem but that's not really the point.
My DLLs have the right dates by the way.
I'm doing another design now and will have to spend loads of time checking the Gerber output as confidence is low after this incident.
I don't know why Support are ignoring me - maybe the company's going under!
Thanks again for your help.
Rog.
Roger |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 08:43:13
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Rwconcepts ....
The type of short you mention may have been caused by the following..... If during a final editing session you move a vai but do not re-generate the powerplanes( or re-pour copper if using them on power planes) then obviously that via will short the planes together. You MUST without exception always carry out a DRC check before generating gerbers. I am sure if you had done this the problem would have been flagged.
Iain |
Edited by - Iain Wilkie on 10 Jun 2009 08:43:50 |
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rwconcepts
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2009 : 10:20:25
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Iain,
Thanks for the reply but I do re-pour Copper and re-DRC.
The point is that on the EPC view all is OK i.e. there is clearance between vias and Cu areas and there are NO DRC errors. The fault occurs in the Gerber generation.
Still not even an acknowledgement from Number One. I suspect they're about to go under.
Roger.
Roger |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2009 : 12:44:16
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I can categorically state that we are not 'about to go under'.
In fact unlike many of our competitors, we are continuing to develop and enhance the product in response to customer demand.
I am currently investigating why you appear not to have received a response to your original issue. We treat problems at the manufacturing stage very seriously, and this should have been dealt with straight away.
David
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rwconcepts
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 20:50:05
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David,
Another month has passed by but still not heard anything. Any progress?
Regards,
Roger
Roger |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 11:11:27
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Sorry Roger, its been a bit of a pig to nail down, but we have now isolated the issue with the code and can give you a program fix.
You should expect an email shortly with the program fix for your V12, the same fix will go into V13 too. |
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rwconcepts
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 20:33:07
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David,
Sorry for not posting a reply sooner - been away on holiday and just getting back up to speed with life.
It's very good news that you've pinned down what happened and can offer a fix. Not received an e-mail yet though - is this still going to happen or have there been further developments?
Regards,
Roger.
Roger |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 17:41:58
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Various holidays this end have held things up too, but it now looks like we have the fixes and they should be on their way to you shortly.
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 17:59:14
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Turns out that the fixes for v13 were included in update 13.0.1 which was released on 4th August. Peter is sending you the corresponding fixed files for v12.
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 19:24:43
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Just out of interest....
Was this problem only associated with planes created using the "powerplane" facility or was it associated with generating powerplanes using "copper pour" areas OR both ???
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rwconcepts
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 19:51:48
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David,
Still not received anything from Peter regarding the version 12 fixes. Due to this issue I've so far held back from upgrading to version 13. As you've recreated the problem and produced a fix, I'll now upgrade to version 13 anyway but in the meantime, as it's just an e-mail, I'd still appreciate the fix for version 12.
Thanks.
Roger |
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rwconcepts
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 19:53:51
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Iain,
I always do my power planes with a Cu pour so this is where the problem occurred. I can't therefore comment on it when using the powerplane facility.
Regards,
Roger |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 14:14:57
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Roger,
just sending those fixed files (for both v12 and v13) again.
David.
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Topic |
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Gerber file problem