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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 13:13:43
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Just experimenting with panelisation feature in V15 and I appear to have discovered something unusual.
"Dimensions" layer of a pcb "seed" does not appear to be visible on screen in panel view (**) regardless of Display settings, yet gets plotted on the Gerbers. This is despite "unmapping" (###)the Dimensions layer when initially creating the panel. Any Dimensions added to the panel are visible on screen and appear on the Gerbers. Otherwise appears to be a nice feature if you know better than your pcb fabricator.
** seed pcb dimensions are not visible on the Plotting & Printing preview window either, -but panel dimensions are!
### mapping/unmapping layers seems to do nothing! |
Edited by - edrees on 08 Sep 2011 13:58:05 |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 08:26:20
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I think this is because the PCB item in the panel design is simply a representation of the source PCB, containing enough board outline and component details for you to distinguish one board from another and to see which way round it has been placed.
If people think it would be beneficial to see everything from the source PCBs in the panel then we may be able to add an option to do that, but of course you would have to take the potential hit on performance as you would be viewing much more data. If you think its worth doing then I can log this as an enhancement request on our database.
David |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 09:25:08
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Hi David. Nice to see that someone from No1 has replied to the many issues raised over the last month or two.
I appreciate that replicating "everything" from the seed pcb to the panel will slow down performance, - but surely that is what the map/unmap layers switch is meant to do, so it's the users choice depending on how much detail he wishes to see. The switch appears to do nothing. |
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halcyonrichard
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 16:10:31
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Hi,
I have just updated to Version 15. I thought the panel editor would allow me to optimise panels for my production oven etc. The problem I have is not seeing what I am going to get i.e WYSIWYG. I tryed adding cutouts with cut shape tabs but nothing appears on the screen. What I would like to see is the board outline along with all the tabs etc. Also when the panels are panelised by a third party they add small drill holes to make it simple to breakout out the PCB's once assembled. To do this without seeing the board outline is cumbersome and error prone.
Is it possible to do this easily with the current setup ?
Are there any plans to make it fully WYSIWIG ?
Regards Richard
Richard |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 16:54:38
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| Hi Richard, I could get the Panel Editor to show the pcb edge and the "end of the router" path i.e. the big nibs on each side of the pcb but you won't see the extra mini drill holes to weaken the nib which some pcb manufacturers add. |
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halcyonrichard
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 17:59:16
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Hi Ed,
I've had a play and can see a little more. I cannot understand the cut tabs command - it does not seem to do anything ? I have 5 PCB's spaced with a 2mm gap. I must be misunderstanding the command but the help menu is a single liner with no example to follow. I'll keep blundering away at it but it's not intuitive at all.
regards
Richard |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2011 : 08:59:56
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| Richard, I think you have to add a closed shape (width =2mm) surrounding your pcb which represents the router path. THen try adding a cut-out onto this shape which will then represent the "nib". Best of luck. |
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halcyonrichard
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2011 : 09:30:11
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Hi Ed,
Thanks for that. I am assembling PCB's so will have a look next week. I have just used the reverse view - it's brilliant for assembling PCB's. V15 is worth it just for that. If I can crack the panelisation I will be a very happy bunny.
Many thanks
Richard |
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halcyonrichard
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 10:47:14
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Hi,
I am a happy bunny  Hi Ed thanks for the information.
The main way to specify a PCB board for a manufacturer is to have the board outline. This can then be sent to any manufacturer and they will "route to board outline". I finally created a penelised board outline complete with tabs. This I can see and edit to my hearts content. Heres how I did it :-
Use the panel wizard to create the desired layout of PCB's
Select all PCB's in the panel
Right click and add shape around PCB
Select all the shapes around PCB's right click properties and move to another layer
Add shape to this layer - rectangle(s) with width of desired tabs
Move this shape to intersect PCB's where you want tabs
select board shapes and "tab Shape" you have just added
Right click on selected shape(s) and select Merge Shapes
You will now have a "board outline" with tabs connecting them
You can also use this technique to add a border around all PCB's for handling if required
I then added drill holes to one tab by adding pads.
I then selected the holes for the first tab and duplicated and placed them for all the other tabs.
This is a 10 minute job and gives the outputs I need for multiple manufacturers - Perfect
Regards
Richard |
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Benno
Netherlands
79 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 15:46:05
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Hi Richard,
not sure what you mean by tabs. If you panelize, doe you have open cutouts in your board and are the tabs interconnecting those?
Would it be possible to post an image or screendump of what you mean?
Panelized panels I used have cutlines between the panels. That way you can break your panel to individual boards.
I always had the PCB company panelize, but would like to do this in EasyPC. Could I follow a similar approach but placing solid lines on this extra layer? |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 16:53:51
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Hi Benno,
The cut-outs should be in the router layer closed shape which represents the router path i.e. the router bit stops at the "cut-out" in the closed shape leaving the pcbs joined together with "nibs". |
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Benno
Netherlands
79 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 17:12:43
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ah OK. Thanks Ed.
Any idea how I can deliver a panelized board with these cuts/carvings?
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 17:33:57
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Not quite sure what you mean Benno?
However, I've ALWAYS used (and will always use) the pcb manufacturer to "panalise" the pcbs for me as they know best for their manufacturing processes, best size of laminate etc. I was only "playing" with this V15 feature! |
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halcyonrichard
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 22:28:41
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Hi Ed and Benno,
I design and manufacture small PCB quantities. I have until now had the bare PCB manufacturer panelise the PCB's and produce the stencil for me. I am aiming to panelise the PCB's myself and generate the data for the stencils myself. On the PCB's I can save 30% by doing this. Benno it sounds like you have either a V groove or score between the PCB's. This is usually O.K. for thin PCB's. I have tabs or nibs between my PCB's this usually gives a cleaner edge to the PCB. I use a de-panelling tool to remove the tabs. I have always provided a board outline for the PCB manufacture to route to. They arrange so that the cutter edge moves along the center line of the board outline. So what is produced is the PCB you would see on the screen in Easypc. What my post suggests is that you produce a shape on another layer in Easypc and rename this as board outline. When you send this to the manufacturer they will route to this shape.
Below is the effect for two PCB's in one panel
---------------------------------------
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| PCB1 |
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--- --------------------------- ---
| |<TAB | |<TAB
--- --------------------------- ---
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| PCB2 |
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---------------------------------------
Using this I can also optimise the number of PCB's I can put in my reflow oven.
Regards
Richard |
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halcyonrichard
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 22:38:00
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Hi,
It looks like the spaces were removed from the last post. heres another go.
-----------------------------------------
|.......................................|
|.......................................|
|...................PCB1................|
|.......................................|
|.......................................|
|.......................................|
---,...---------------------------....---
...|..|<TAB.......................|..|<TAB
--- --------------------------- ---
|.......................................|
|.......................................|
|...................PCB2................|
|.......................................|
|.......................................|
|.......................................|
-----------------------------------------
Regards
Richard |
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Topic |
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Dimensions layer in Panels -bug in V15?