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tmd63
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 00:49:42
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I have seen that Altium can import from many different designs.
"Supported Import File Formats
The following provides an overview of what file types can be imported into Altium Designer. The method of import may differ between different file types, and are detailed in the sections thereafter.
All previous Protel/Altium Schematic files/libraries
All previous Protel/Altium PCB files/libraries
Protel 99SE Design Database (*.ddb)
P-CAD V16 or V17 Binary Schematic design files (*.sch)
P-CAD V16 or V17 ASCII Schematic design files (*.sch)
P-CAD V15, V16, or V17 Binary PCB design files (*.pcb)
P-CAD V15, V16, or V17 ASCII PCB design files (*.pcb)
P-CAD V16 or V17 Binary Library files (*.lib)
P-CAD V16 or V17 ASCII Library files (*.lia)
P-CAD PDIF file (*.pdf)
Tango PCB ASCII files (*.pcb)
CircuitMaker Schematics (*.ckt)
CircuitMaker User Libraries (*.lib)
CircuitMaker Device Libraries (*.lib)
Eagle Schematic (*.sch)
Eagle PCB (*.pcb)
Eagle Library (*.lbr)
OrCAD Capture Designs (*.dsn)
OrCAD Capture Libraries (*.olb)
OrCAD Layout PCB documents (*.max)
OrCAD PCB Libraries (*.llb)
OrCAD CIS Configuration file (*.dbc)
OrCAD SDT (*.sch)
PADS Layout ASCII Design files (*.asc)
PADS Layout ASCII Decal Libraries (*.d)
PADS Logic ASCII Design files (*.txt)
PADS Logic ASCII CAE Decal Libraries (*.c)
PADS Logic ASCII Part Type Libraries (*.p)
DxDesigner Designs and Libraries
Expedition files (*.pcb, *.lib)
CADSTAR Schematic Archive (*.csa)
CADSTAR PCB Archive (*.cpa)
CADSTAR Part Library (*.lib)
Allegro binary PCB (*.brd)
Allegro ASCII PCB (*.alg)
Specctra Design file (*.dsn)
AutoCAD DWG/DXF (*.dwg, *.dxf)"
It is possible for EasyPC to have similar import capabilities (export need not be an option).
I get requests for updating various designs and if it was possible to import many designs into EasyPC. I could import and edit in EasyPC and supply the gerbers for almost any design given to me. The customer would have to accept that my updated designs would be in EasyPC format only or ODB++ and Gerber output. |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 08:22:05
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I am sure you can imagine that supporting such a wide range of import formats comes at quite a cost in terms of development and maintenance of the code. Apart from the business implications of the level of investment that would be required, there is also the issue that many of those formats that you list have data capabilities beyond the ability of Easy-PC to hold in it's design data format. This has knock-on implications in terms of things like spacing and thermal rules to be applied when generating manufacturing outputs.
Having said that, I would suggest that you have a look at Easy-PC's "sister" product called Pulsonix. This is a product more in line with the capabilities of software such as PADS and Altium, and does have a long list of import formats including many which you include in your original post.
http://pulsonix.com.
David. |
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tmd63
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2016 : 09:43:17
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I know that supporting such a wide range would be a huge investment, especially with the UK economy looking very bleak (with Brexit and the weakening pound), but could I suggest maybe one or two of these imports to start. Eagle can be imported already (I tried it and it works very well) so maybe Altium Schematic and PCB files could be added to start.
Then maybe P-CAD or Circuit maker later. Slowly building on the imports for older designs to allow these older designs to be imported to EASYPC for legacy work. Especially those that are not in use any more. This could open a market for updating old designs for those that cannot afford the original software to upgrade their designs (ie old Protel designs need Altium to upgrade so a Protel import would open this for you, or Allegro is needed for OrCAD, etc.). |
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John Baraclough
United Kingdom
129 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2016 : 16:04:31
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Whilst adding all these import formats may be a nice idea, I think EasyPC is the best tool in its class. I doubt that you could purchase Altium for only £1.60 per week! I suspect adding those feature would put it beyond the reach of many users.
-------------------------------------------------------
Birthdays are good for you: the more you have, the longer you live ... and I've had lots of them so I should know! |
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davep
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2016 : 22:19:25
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| Import from Design Spark would save re-entering customer's draft designs. This should be a very low cost addition! |
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nigelwright7557
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 08:37:31
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I wrote my own PCBCAD software and sell it for about £5 a go on ebay.
Believe it or not I get people asking if it can import other companies CAD files.
To start adding imports for each PCBCAD vendor would take forever and cost a fortune, and that's if other companies were willing to give me their formats. Its just unrealistic.
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
498 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 09:46:14
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One of the obstacles to supporting other vendor's formats is that many of them are encrypted. Even if this format were to be broken, there's nothing to prevent the vendor changing the encryption with the next version, so maintenance of the import would become a nightmare. The alternative would be an agreement with the vendor to allow the import to happen, but not surprisingly, many vendors, especially high end ones, are extremely reluctant to pursue this path, especially as the corporate perception of Easy-PC is still that it's a bottom end product (which in many ways is simply not the case).
I think it's now an open secret that Design Spark and Easy-PC have the same roots. I don't have any privileged or inside knowledge regarding this, so this is purely a personal opinion, but my presumption would be that there may be some contractual provision blocking the addition of Design Spark import to Easy-PC. Speculatively, it would be a reasonable move for RS to make to protect any investment they may have made in Design Spark. This is purely a personal opinion from looking at the facts available to any user, so there's always the possibility that I've read it completely wrong! |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 10:06:02
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quote:
.....as the corporate perception of Easy-PC is still that it's a bottom end product
Agreed, -the name "Easy_PC" doesn't exactly conjure up the image of the high quality product which it is. It's really time for No.1 to come up with a more professional sounding product name! Perhaps this can be part of the imminent V23 upgrade!
Suggestions please for the re-branded name to support@numberone.com (to win a free V23 update?). |
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
498 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 10:24:28
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20-20 hindsight's a wonderful thing even regarding something as simple as the name of software. Remember that it's now over 40 years since it was coined! Regarding the program release, you're a little out of date - V23 is available, just look at the website.
The problem with the name is familiarity. It's really difficult, and actually quite expensive, to change a name, even if the original one isn't particularly inspiring. I hate to think how much the travel company now known as TUI have spent just to get their new name into the public perception. The other issue is that, having been around since the early days of CAD, we're also in the same arena of vacuum cleaners being known as 'Hoovers'. For good or bad, there's now an inextricable link between the name 'Easy-PC' and pcb cad programs. It would be stupid to throw that away, even if the name is now past it's best before date.
The end result is that there's no easy answer, but I think the name's unlikely to change just for the sake of it. |
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Scazon
United Kingdom
66 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 10:38:33
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"One of the obstacles to supporting other vendor's formats is that many of them are encrypted. "
So is EPC's. So much so, and so pointlessly, that we can't even exchange with DesignSpark PCB, which is the same thing cut down a bit. Perhaps the marketing folk fear a mass exodus to DS if we could; perhaps it's a contractual thing with RS (in which case the NumberOne negotiator should be shot). But it does mean you don't get a whole pile of people who are familiar with the package but need professional facilities. Eagle users get that from Farnell. |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 11:34:19
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I don't think that it's any surprise that RS subsidised the D/Spark version of Easy_PC as a tool to sell more components from the RS website, and as such RS wish to protect their investment by deliberately making it incompatible. If No.1 hadn't done it, RS would simply have tried another CAD Supplier to produce the D/Spark package. The unfortunate shame is that a number of 3rd party Suppliers support the popular D/Spark format,-but not the Easy-PC format (unless imported indirectly via Eagle!).
No.1 also deliberately change the file "format" of Easy_PC every year, but as everything is backwards compatible, it initially led me to believe it was purely a simple file "checksum" feature (apart from the case maybe of a major feature upgrade). However, I've been persuaded to believe that even No.1 can't "undo" a design that has been re-saved in a later revision, so maybe there is a good reason after all not to make files compatible with older versions of Easy-PC.
This would also be the case for other CAD suppliers too, making importing/exchange of many other CAD files uneconomical in a "reasonably priced" commercial environment. If you need to import a wide variety of formats, you will have to pay for that privilege, -and I doubt if there are any cast iron guarantees that errors won't be introduced during the "Import" preceedure. |
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
498 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2019 : 16:20:17
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| Notification of the release of new major versions is deliberately sent out in batches, so that any resulting orders can be processed in a timely manner. The auto-notification of updates only works for updates within the current version, not for new main releases. |
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nigelwright7557
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2019 : 15:16:32
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Even if the data structure isn't encrypted it would be difficult to convert any partial "binary" formats without formal description.
I wrote my own CAD software in about 1990 and 90% of the data is binary format and bits are used rather than a text based structure which is a more modern way of doing it. In 1990 memory wasn't so plentiful so compressing the data as much as possible was the way to go.
As for EasyPC I suspect the name was used to get across the fact it is easy to learn.
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
498 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2019 : 16:45:22
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| Having been around at the program's inception, I can confirm that in the days of the 4.77MHz processor, yes, it did seem like a pretty smart name, but it's also true that now it feels dated. Pretty much like an advert from around that time (Elonex IIRC) that asked 'Does your PC Plod?'. I can't imagine anyone using that nowadays, but at the time it certainly seemed clever. |
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Scazon
United Kingdom
66 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2019 : 18:56:12
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Now here's a carborundum- I had EPC23 and DesignSpark 8.1 open at the same time, doing firkulations to designs in each. I copied a section of schematic from DS which I intended to drop into another DS design, but accidentally opened my EPC design and dropped it there- and it pasted in nicely! Seems to work for PCBs as well. However, it doesn't go the other way, EPC to DS- "design is created by a more recent version...".
That would be much more useful for me, but I haven't got an old version of EPC installed at the moment sadly so I can't check.
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2019 : 10:59:15
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You will find that there is full two-way compatibility of data between Easy-PC and the newly-launched DesignSpark PCB PRO package, but for DesignSpark PCB (the free version) you will still only be able to move data 'upwards' from the 'lite' product to the full ones. This is to prevent issues with the simpler application not being able to handle some of the data complexity/features available in the full products.
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Scazon
United Kingdom
66 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2019 : 22:37:11
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Well, it's there on the RS site, but no pricing...
looks like EPC is a dead end now.
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2019 : 10:31:12
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Well it is there on RS at £375.00 .... wonder if there is a pin limit on that ?
Wonder what other features that might be limited ? ..... Will have to have a look closer.
Iain
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2019 : 14:05:27
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£375 + VAT + an annual upgrades fee I guess? Unknown pin count limit, -I guess there isn't one, otherwise RS would offer Bronze, Silver & Gold PRO packages like Number1.
Why pay this when you already have a EPC license , - unless EPC is doomed? Anticipate some re-assurances from David/Number1 please.
Hopefully, EPC users can now benefit from the DesignSpark libraries from RS and other 3rd partu sources and both packages can survive.
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shadders
United Kingdom
224 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2019 : 16:20:36
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Hi,
I don't see that Easy-PC is under threat. If there is a migration to Designspark Pro for existing users, then i would expect it to be free. I would also expect that Easy-PC capabilities are either the same or less than Designspark Pro.
The only concern i have is that there is a move to a subscription model for the licence as opposed to the current model.
For the libraries, i use the surface mount PCB library the most, but always define my own as i progress the designs.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2019 : 18:17:13
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| Surely you mean that you expect that EPC capability should be as good or better than DesignSpark Pro?? I sincerely hope so anyway. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
224 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2019 : 19:07:58
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quote:
Originally posted by edrees
Surely you mean that you expect that EPC capability should be as good or better than DesignSpark Pro?? I sincerely hope so anyway.
Hi,
No, given that if the migration to Designspark Pro is forced, then we will be getting an upgrade.
The opposite direction means we may lose functionality.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2019 : 20:33:07
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I note that it appears that cost options are included !
So at £375 this is an absolute bargain compared to buying EPC.
Nothing to say about upgrades .... and what about support ? The one thing that EPC has excelled at was their customer support and was and has always been the first and foremost reason for me staying with the brand.
Anyway, I have had a play and it looks like this is the full blown EasyPC !
Iain
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Mike Warren
Australia
124 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2019 : 22:48:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Iain Wilkie
The one thing that EPC has excelled at was their customer support and was and has always been the first and foremost reason for me staying with the brand.
It's a big plus for me too. They are quick to jump on reported bugs, unlike many companies now days.
There is often pressure for me to move to Altium as it's the de-facto standard in Australia, but I'm comfortable with EPC, and particularly the price since PCB design is only a very small part of my job.
http://mike-warren.net |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2019 : 08:59:36
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I can certainly assure you that this is not the end of the line for Easy-PC, it is just part of our on-going relationship with RS. We intend to continue with support and development of Easy-PC as we always have done, and there is no intention to require anyone to move from Easy-PC to DesignSpark.
On the 'cost options' front, I think the only option that is bundled with DesignSpark PRO is IDF output, and that is only there because the original DesignSpark PCB needed to work closely with DesignSpark Mechanical.
David. |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2019 : 09:45:35
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Iain believes that DesignSpark Pro is the "full-blown" package (inc. Intelligent Import? -I'm not sure) whereas David indicates that only the IDF upgrade is included.
AT £375+ VAT I can't imagine any new Customer will be tempted to purchase EPC, so I believe it will be scrapped eventually as DS Pro continues to be improved and existing EPC Users dwindle. Shadders also believes a "forced" migration might be inevitable. However, I can't imagine that this migration will be complimentary to existing EPC Users,- but I'm no marketing expert!
We're doomed Captain Mainwaring!
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2019 : 10:12:05
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Cost options included seem to be IDF, GENCAD and Intelligent Gerber import !
There is also Spectra for routing but it needs a separate .exe file which appears not to be included (just as well or folk that have purchased pro-router in the past would be livid !!)
Maybe David could outline the differences between the two just to make things clearer ?
Iain
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Scazon
United Kingdom
66 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2020 : 12:21:16
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Answer to a query on the DesignSpark forum:
Hi, you should be able to open EPC design design files in DSPCB Pro without any problem. You do not have to use even "import" option, but just "Open". Let us know if you experience any problem with it.
Is the reciprocal facility planned for EPC? This was the point over which I abandoned BoardMaker 2 for EPC. |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2020 : 13:34:45
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| As posted a little while back, data is fully interchangeable / compatible between Easy-PC (V23) and DesignSpark PRO. Both of those products can also read from DesignSpark PCB (the free product) but you cannot take Easy-PC or DSPRO designs or libraries back to DS PCB due to data / functional limitations in the free product. |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1015 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2020 : 15:23:03
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David,
You never did reply to the fact that it appears a lot of the cost options in EPC are available in designspark pro ..... all for a lesser cost that EPC on its own !
Iain |
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edrees
United Kingdom
779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2020 : 15:35:39
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I was waiting for a response too David! It would be nice to understand Number One's commercial viewpoint on this issue.
As I stated in a previous thread,-
At £375+ VAT I can't imagine any new Customer will be tempted to purchase EPC.
Hope everybody keeps safe and well during these difficult times!
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Topic |
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Importing Designs