| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Benno |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 12:17:19
Hi all,
I am currently still at V15.08 and now that I am using EPC more constant I have 2-3 crashes a day, mostly while routing PCB. Also EPC becomes very slow when I leave it open for some time without using it.
What is the experience with you early adopters on V17, is it more stable then previous versions?
I am in doubt if I want to buy upgrade for V17 or move to a completely different package in the end. |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hodali |
Posted - 26 Aug 2013 : 09:45:53
I sent an email to support and sales. |
| Iain Wilkie |
Posted - 26 Aug 2013 : 09:30:08
Probably been there for months or even years just not spotted. If you let Numberone know about it directly it will get fixed. Indeed if you ever do suspect a bug its best to let them know directly as the forum will only be monitored by them now and again and bugs may be missed.
Iain |
| hodali |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 23:12:45
Easy-PC 16.0.8 was tested on Windows 7 professional 64 and has the same bug as Easy-PC 17.0 (tested on Windows 7 starter) as well.
Follow the instruction on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FpSUQitxX0&list=PLzNng1OOkzLx9lT7baDShfMHL9vvWJs-1 . The error occurs in Interact.dll (Easy-PC 16.0.8)
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| edrees |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 14:03:00
@Holadi,
I was only following your instructions (and what you demonstrate in your You Tube video),-
quote:
Try this:
1) Select "File -> New -> PCB Design" and click on "Ok"
2) Use "Add -> Trunk Route "
3) Click once the left mouse button to use Trunk Route
4) Click the right mouse button to display the context menues
5) Select "Push Tracks further Apart" from context menu
Easy-PC 17 will crash !!
-not second guessing what you know/do not know.
It works for me if I select the items prior to trunk route. |
| hodali |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 13:32:28
@edrees: I know how to use Trunk Route. You can enter the number of tracks without selecting any items. I tried 2 tracks and 6 tracks and Easy-PC 17 always crashes.
quote:
Originally posted by edrees
Hodali,
Read the Help/Manual. You have to select items BEFORE starting Trunk route. Otherwise how does EPC know how many tracks to provide. If it doesn't know the number of tracks how can it push them apart?
Ok, EPC shouldn't crash under these situations, but be fair!
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| edrees |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 13:17:11
Hodali,
Read the Help/Manual. You have to select items BEFORE starting Trunk route. Otherwise how does EPC know how many tracks to provide. If it doesn't know the number of tracks how can it push them apart?
Ok, EPC shouldn't crash under these situations, but be fair! |
| hodali |
Posted - 25 Aug 2013 : 10:53:56
Try this:
1) Select "File -> New -> PCB Design" and click on "Ok"
2) Use "Add -> Trunk Route "
3) Click once the left mouse button to use Trunk Route
4) Click the right mouse button to display the context menues
5) Select "Push Tracks further Apart" from context menu
Easy-PC 17 will crash !!
I uploaded a video on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FpSUQitxX0&list=PLzNng1OOkzLx9lT7baDShfMHL9vvWJs-1
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| AndyB |
Posted - 24 Aug 2013 : 21:39:16
I have a few problems with V17 but then I have a few problems with all versions of Easy PC.
I wish I had stuck with V16 as this has been the most stable of all.
I'm angry with myself as I had trusted V17 and worked on a couple of pcb's and noyt saved a V16 version. Now I cant go back to v16.
Does anybody know a way to back tracjk a pcb frpm V17 to V16 work on V16?
maybe somebody at Esy PC can provide a converter to mallow this to happen. |
| Iain Wilkie |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 09:32:03
Dave,
I have just completed a new project with v17 with no problems at all. However I never use the dual screen operation. Also I do have a habit of clicking the save button nearly ever 5 minutes. I have never lost any data and certainly have had no problems in trying to open or save files. I will however re-iterate that I am using XP.
I would suggest thst you email/phone numberone about this as that is what the support is for and they may not pick up on the forum any issues that quickly.
Iain |
| dgeorge |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 00:58:15
Title: 1) v17 not making security copies!
2) file open/save/close interface in EPC is suspect
v17 is unstable and "vicious." I have had two crashes today and the most annoying part is that in both cases, no Security Copies of my PCB file exist even though I have set the option to record a security file every five minutes. In both of my crashes, the PCB window (using dual monitors) simply disappears -- there is no error message, no delay, no hang-up, not anything, the window just immediately evaporates. After that no security copy exists and only the backup from the last time it was opened. So I work for two hours and risk two hours loss of work UNLESS I quit the application and restart. I am not sure even that File/SaveAll even works either --, perhaps in a dual window mode when you save all from one window it isn't saving the other one, even though they are all in the same project!??? So after the first crash, I was dutifully saving copies as I went -- then another crash, ahd STILL no backup ...... It is most frustrating.
Further.... I have had several problems with file system access through Easy PC. Several times it won't open a file (after clicking file-open and browsing to a file and clicking open) even though a file is selected and I click the open button. Sometimes it won't browse a folder hierarchy. Sometimes it won't save a file. Conclusion, the file-access-open/save/close element in EPC is flaky and causes loss of time, loss of work, and loss of sanity. It is possible that this issue is partly or solely related to using dual monitors because I might have notices that it seems more stable in a single window than with dual monitors. a REAL challenge with dual monitors is to attempt to open an existing project and to then Save-As it to a new file name, renaming SCH and PCB files as it goes. That has caused me great frustration. An other annoying part is that it isn't as easy as copying and renaming the files yourself with new names. Apparently, the file name is saved within the file, and a project reference is saved maybe multiple places in the files, so nothing in EPC works as expected unless you let EPC do all of the file renaming.
Is anybody else experiencing similar issues and do you have any insight or fixes?
Dave
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| Iain Wilkie |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 12:55:27
Mike,
Bottom line is ..... Easypc runs ok on one machine .... Doesn't on another .... An OS is just another level of software (same as the application) and is going to have bugs. XP once it got to SP2 was fantastic. I have had the least problems not only with EPC but also with other programs such as our accounts package and a few bespoke programs we had written for other customers.
Just switched to Windows7 on my laptop and we had a crash on the accounts program !
Iain |
| Iain Wilkie |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 12:23:29
There may be a clue there ..... I NEVER use dual screen
Iain
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| 636steve |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 11:16:07
I have used EPC since v9.
Currently using v16 on a daily basis and have very few problems. The few times it has crashed I can't remember ever losing any data and if I did with EPCset to make regular backups I don't see this being a problem if it occurred.
One annoying thing which is I believe related to working with dual screens is when forwarding design changes it comes up with a back annotation error. This is solved by saving the pcb and closing it then doing the forward changes.
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| Mike Warren |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 23:36:59
quote:
Originally posted by Iain Wilkie
What you have to understand is crashes may not only be due to the application, but also the OS.
As a programmer that has had to deal with Windows quirks for many years, I can assure you the crashes I was having in earlier versions of EPC were directly or indirectly the application, not the OS.
I have to work close to sections of the OS in my commercial applications with many direct API calls.
A lot of my software has to work in embedded systems and must never crash to the point of requiring user intervention. And there must never be any data lost. One program is very graphics and sound intensive.
If you have not had problems with earlier versions of EPC then you are very lucky that your work-flow must match very closely the work-flow of the EPC developer(s). With V7 and V9, Back Annotation had a 40% probability of a file corrupting crash on several of my very simple designs. Other crashes tend to just lose any work done since the last save.
One thing that really helps is to have testers that are not close to the developers and who use the program in different ways. I had a tester for about 6 years who was brilliant at finding ways to expose bugs. Not only could he use my programs in ways I hadn't thought of, but he was able to remember what he did, which meant that faults could often be reproduced quickly. Occasionally, the fault would be caused by an API not behaving as documented, but I never dwelt on it. I just found a work-around and moved forward.
My current tester rarely finds anything I don't already know about and that causes an occasional bug to make it to release.
The continuing issues with copper pours in EPC for many years suggests to me that the code is not as clean as it could be. Global exception handling seems to be either non-existent or poorly executed. A program should not need to exit every time a serious error occurs.
quote:
Just note the number of times Windows update kicks in to modify itself. This is to fix reported bugs.
Actually, most Windows updates are to fix security vulnerabilities, not crash-causing bugs. The main influence of the OS on a program like EPC is in drawing functions. And crashes here are more often than not caused by video drivers. The clue to this being the cause is that other graphics-intensive programs will also be unstable.
quote:
I have never had any really bad instability problems with EasyPC over the past few years. This might be due to the fact I am still using XP Professional which has been one of the best windows platform around.
Win2K, WinXP and Win7 are all reasonable as long as you have well written drivers, but they all took a while to get there, in part because the hardware manufacturers had to fine-tune their drivers.
quote:
When I do get a crash it tends to be when I close the program, and I have NEVER had to resort to a backup file for loss of data.
That has been my most common crash with V16 too.
quote:
Check out the forums for other software applications (not just pcb stuff) and you will see the same problems. Its not just EasyPC, its everything else including windows itself.
Most crashes of any programs are caused by the program, then the drivers, then the OS. This probably sounds like I like Windows. I don't. There are many problems with Windows, but causing random crashes in user-level applications is not common.
Even when the OS is the cause there is usually a way to work around it.
Having said all that, I do like a lot about EPC, the UI has been well thought out, and that's something I don't say about very many programs. And as of V16, it's stable enough that I use it without constant fear of losing my work. I have also not had any copper pour issues with V16.
http://mike-warren.net |
| Iain Wilkie |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 19:05:24
What you have to understand is crashes may not only be due to the application, but also the OS. Just note the number of times Windows update kicks in to modify itself. This is to fix reported bugs.
I have never had any really bad instability problems with EasyPC over the past few years. This might be due to the fact I am still using XP Professional which has been one of the best windows platform around.
When I do get a crash it tends to be when I close the program, and I have NEVER had to resort to a backup file for loss of data.
Check out the forums for other software applications (not just pcb stuff) and you will see the same problems. Its not just EasyPC, its everything else including windows itself.
Iain |
| Benno |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 12:20:03
Hi Mike,
thanks for your info. I can not remember myself having crashes or slowing it down, but at the moment I am using EPC more constant then before. My system should be good enough, I have an i7 with 12GB Ram. My designs are not that complicated ;)
I also have made a lot of components in my library, but I need to create a better setup library anyway, since I now need use for more different components and packages then I had before when I only did my own designs.
One of the biggest frustrations with EPC for me is the fact that it is completely locked. I cannot do anything or automate anything on my libraries or designs, except "steal" Eagle libs and import them. We even can not use the files or libraries made by the RS version. Very frustrating since we are paying customers.
It would be a big bonus if Numberone would create some form of access to the libs or schema / pcb designs for external programs. That could be as simple as an activeX DLL and some documentation. Another way could be that they include some form of scripting so you can access your designs and create some form of output. I know some also can be done using CSV files, but that is not flexible enough and needs a lot of user actions.
Over the years I have used a lot of components and now I am also working on 3th party designs with all their own components and sometimes internal partnumbers. I created an internal database to manage this to some extend, but without an actual link to the designfiles it still takes a lot of work and errors to document the designs.
Altium for me is also out of the picture, since I cannot justify it's price for the use I have. And as you say Altium also has it's problems. It is far more open then EPC however, they have a plugin system and you can access design and library parts using these plugins.
I have been looking at open source as an alternative route. Kicad is one of the packages I played with. It also has some frustrating things but moves forward very fast. The workflow is a bit different to EPC, since you make a schematic design and have a stuffing stage linking PCB packages to the components. Also the included PCB editor is not top but works. There are also alternative PCB editors like FreePCB that can use Kicad output.
My main objective for moving away from EPC is not cost based, EUR100 for an update or something like eur650 for an extra license is not that dramatic. But more flexibility in my workflow could give me time and thus makes money.
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| Mike Warren |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 23:33:20
Since you haven't had any other answers I'll give you my experience, FWIW.
I bought EPC at V7. At the time I looked at everything else available. The industry standard, at least in Australia was Protel (now Altium), but for the sort of work I needed I couldn't justify the starting price of $7k. After playing with the demo of EPC I really liked how intuitive it was compared to the other packages so I bought it.
Once I started using it I discovered that it had nasty crashes that caused lost work by corrupting the files. After getting burnt badly (lost 2 day's work) I initiated a procedure of manually copying the files every hour or so. Very annoying.
When I came to work on the next project EPC was at V9 so I hoped it would be more stable. Unfortunately, it wasn't. I continued to upgrade only if I was about to start a new project. Last year I upgraded to V16 and have been using EPC during the last year more than I ever have.
It still crashes occasionally, but with the new multiple backup system I have never lost more than half an hour's work (usually only 5 minutes or so).
I have since learned the even Altium has lots of nasty bugs. I think it's par for the course with this type of software that is quite complicated, but has a comparatively small user base and can't have massive resources thrown at it.
My main complaint with EPC now days is lack of features that would improve my productivity, but odds are they wouldn't be things most other people would want.
Changing to another package, for me would be very painful since I have created my own library of components and would have to start that again.
I don't recall ever having V16 go slow, although I do have a pretty powerful computer now. I tend to start it at 8 AM and shut it down at 5 PM, even though I might not do more than 5 minutes work with it on some days.
http://mike-warren.net |
